Homeschooling Mommies?!?

Sep 21st, 2011

I lied. Last week I blogged that I would research and tell you why homeschooling is 2-million-children-strong and border-line mainstream. I planned to report out why parents in our generation are deciding to homeschool en masse but I can’t do it. I can’t get past the total lack of logic. I can’t help but be freaked out by Facebook groups and blogs touting their homeschooling methods and group field trips. Homeschooling Co-ops are popping up everywhere encouraging the average parent that they can become both teacher and school to their brood. Sounds problematic, right? Because it is.

I’m fired up and this is me Just. Getting. Started.

Don’t believe the current political rhetoric, teachers are experts who know more than you.

Schools are failing and it’s because of the terrible, stupid, evil teachers. That is mostly what we’ve been hearing in our state for the last year from politicians. Just like politicians, teachers cannot be expected to fix all of our society’s ills that are simply mirrored in our school systems.

Teaching is an art and a science. Teachers are experts in their field based on experience and education. How could parents (Education backgrounds or non) become experts in the curriculum each school year? It takes years for a teacher to hone their craft and their curriculum for one specific grade level. No one could ever prepare and master all standards and content K-12. How could anyone effectively teach their varied-aged children every single year just by trading lesson plans with other homeschooling moms? BA-NA-NAS. No one’s that awesome. I can rock a ninth grade English class teaching them poetry but I am certain my sad math skills won’t help me with my kids’ homework past the fifth grade.

Are homeschooling parents egotistical enough to think they can know and teach Everything? Classics? Calculus? Chemistry? PE? Please.

Character Education

More important than the actual material was that my best teachers illustrated for me how they think. What they valued. How they chose to live and how I could choose to as well when I graduated to adulthood. My favorite teachers like Mr. Condon, my sophomore English teacher, taught me to see the world differently by making themselves vulnerable enough to reveal to students who they were. These teachers expanded my worldview, past the boundaries and norms of my own family, where I was able to start defining who I wanted to be.

Conversely, I also had one abusive high school teacher who belittled me every day in front of the class to the point that I wouldn’t speak anymore in her room. To anyone. One time she snarled, “Alexis, stop brushing your hair- that’s the way bugs are spread!” She bullied me until students I didn’t know asked me what I did to her for her to hate me so much. I had no idea. I was new at that school. I was shy and 17. After months of her cruelty, I asked her what I did to deserve her hatefulness and she backed down because she was and is a coward. In her ugliness she taught me about my strength.

The teachers your children will encounter will be excellent examples of character sprinkled with a few non-examples but we need all of those perspectives to question our beliefs, confuse, irritate, inspire, uplift, and finally create ourselves. One parent teaching at home can’t do that.

Parents are the main teachers of their children but remember that thing about the village.

Homeschooling parents are reading books like “The Unschooling Handbook: How to Use the Whole World As Your Child’s Classroom” by Mary Griffith, which she summarizes, “Unschooling is a homeschooling method based on the belief that kids learn best when allowed to pursue their natural curiosities and interests.”

Good parents do this naturally, not as some excuse to shield their kids from the scary world of other people and school.

See just like “unschooling” parents, I take my kids to the aquarium and teach them about what sharks eat and the symbiotic relationship between sea anemones and clown fish and how Winter the dolphin’s prosthetic tail works over her peduncle. I have play dates to socialize. We finger paint self-portraits. But that alone does not an education make. Those are the fun activities that serve to supplement. After the artsy-fartsy pursuits there are plenty of other skills necessary for a well-rounded child. Can I get into all of those topics? No! Because my knowledge is limited. And I am smart enough to know that I don’t know what she needs to know. I am smart enough to trust that my daughter’s teacher, who is certified in Pre-K knows what the standards are that Punky needs to know! Punky needs many many teachers. We as her parents will always be the lead ones, but for the sake of balance and well-roundedness, we all need the whole village. Thank you, schools!

These are only a few of my millions of concerns about children being “taught” by non-certified parents in their homes. What a disservice to keep kids in a bubble and not allow them to experience other students’ and teachers’ ideas. It’s the ultimate control freak and fear-driven parenting behavior. Whose Kool-Aid did these families drink to decide to “unschool”?

You know that one saying, “Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach”. Here is my revision: Those who can teach, do. Those who can’t, homeschool.

Written by Alexis Novak • 72 Comments

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72 Responses to Homeschooling Mommies?!?

Heather Wed, Sep 21, 1:11pm

I completely agree. Thank you for sharing your beliefs.

Shannon Wed, Sep 21, 1:29pm

Bravo Alexis…BRAVO!!!!!!

Jessica Lawhern Wed, Sep 21, 1:49pm

Great post! I agree 100%!

HomeSchooling Works Wed, Sep 21, 3:13pm

Wow! This post is incredible judgmental, thank you for your opinion none the less. We have been homeschooling for over 3 years now and unschooling my kids whole life. My children have never been to day care or regular school and I am very proud of that! My aunt who has been a public school teacher for over 20 years agrees with my choice and can see how well it works for my children. She has often said that my children are not like most of her students which are the same age group. I will say that home education is not for the lazy parents who don’t like to learn and research. Home education no matter what method a family chooses, takes a lot of dedication and patients, by loving parents. We actually use a Charter program through the state of CA and get all of our curriculum for free, and have don this for 3 years. We like our workbooks and do them when we can and enjoy learning in many other ways as well. If I don’t know something about a subject or question that my kids ask them we will research it, not hard! Homeschooling is about living and learning with your children, enjoying life! No one is more capable then doing this with my children than me! Anyway got to go, we are going to the museum today!

Zach Wed, Sep 21, 4:04pm

@ “homeschooling works” You sound like a very involved parent and home-school facilitator, and I applaud that, I can imagine how busy you are. I would like to point out, that in terms of the availability of research, “schooled” students have the exact same research sources as homeschooling students (and I would argue more).

Further, I’m not sure how you would “research” reading The Great Gatsby 50 times, or Othello 50 times, or Cannery Row 50 times, or Plato’s Republic 50 times, etc. There’s no research that make you that familiar with works of Literature outside of swimming through them over and over and over again which I’m paid to do. I’m an expert, I’ve lived through these books over and over and each swim is a new swim, new locales are discovered, new currents, and I grab the hand of my students and show them how to swim through these works, until they can swim by themselves.

No amount of amateur research can make up for an experience with an expert in the field (or sea)

Cathy Wed, Sep 21, 3:15pm

You don’t seem to know a lot about homeschooling, and you seem unaware of the research findings that pertain to conditions that are best for learning–choice, intent, activity on the learner’s part, just for starters. I cannot possibly address all that you’ve gotten wrong in this post, but let me pose one question:

If a parent (who has probably gone through a K-12 education in a public school) could not possibly master all the material in a K-12 education, then how one earth are we expecting students to master all of it?

(And I have been through teacher training. Trust me, parents can teach their own, and kids can learn on their own, too!)

Zach Wed, Sep 21, 4:07pm

Students also need structure, guidance (by experts in the field), and to learn the responsibility that is associated with freedom outside of their “private sphere.”

chantal Wed, Sep 21, 3:19pm

Oops. Looks like you forgot to do that research you mentioned. If you had, you wouldn’t think all homeschoolers teach all standards and content K-12 themselves. You might understand that those co-ops you deride serve to expose students to different people and different teaching methods from people with different areas of expertise and different world perspectives (but without that 30-1 student-teacher ratio). You might also learn that many homeschoolers enjoy lots of activities with their public school friends and can even take some classes at public schools. Remember that thing about the village?

You might also want to check the stats on how long teachers tend to stay in education. Then you’ll find that these days most don’t actually stick around long enough to hone their craft and curriculum for one specific grade level. You may have quit after 9 years, but many don’t make it to 5. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but around these parts, quite a few teachers are shuffled around from grade to grade almost annually. (If they’re lucky. Budget cuts send the arts and science teachers to the unemployment lines first.)

Sweeping generalizations about public school kids irk me as much as the same ignorant generalizations about homeschoolers (or homebirthers, or lawyers, or teachers, politicians or any other people you want to pigeon-hole). Instead of being so abrasive and judgmental, perhaps a dash of compassion and open mindedness might do you – and your kids – a world of good.

Zach Wed, Sep 21, 4:11pm

Chantal, And your proposal for fixing these systemic concerns of public education is to……become dissociated from them? To take your child and run, to abandon the Public?

Dori Smith Wed, Sep 21, 3:21pm

Homeschooling was not the right fit for us and I agree with a lot of your opinions after trying it for a short time. We believe our family is more effective being a part of the school system as opposed to staying out of it.

Tanya Wed, Sep 21, 3:28pm

One of the things that really upset me about this post (well there are many but…) is that she makes a big point that we home-schoolers blame the teachers mostly. I don’t agree, I think there are really great teachers, many of my very best friends are wonderful people and are TEACHERS and they respect and love that we’re able to do this for our kids. Unfortunately, they have to teach within a SYSTEM that I don’t agree with. My children did attend Public School and as far as PS’s go I loved the school they attended, Sanderlin IB Elem. The teachers were wonderful, the ones my children had, we had great relationships with them, they worked as one-on-one with each child as they could within this SYSTEM. My kids school was a ‘C’ school, deemed by most not good enough because the standard test scores were low (mostly because of the number of CSE students), most want their kids in ‘A’ schools. Well that to me only says that the teachers did a good job at teaching to the Standardized testing that they’ve been made to do, by the SYSTEM. So as you can see, I have more a problem with the system.

This is our first year UN-schooling, but my husband and I have thought about and loved the idea since we were pregnant with our first, over 10 years ago. I don’t think this is the best route for everyone, but it is for us. Over the years I’ve always thought out of the box in every aspect of my life, I had natural childbirth, co-slept, attachment parent, extended breastfeeding, waived vaccinations so I could be selective and a spread them out, etc. Homeschooling is a natural choice for us, I’ve done a ton of research and have met so many wonderful HS families this past decade. I swear the HS kids I’ve met, every one of them are the most social, educated, well mannered, worldly that I come across. I’m so thankful that we’ve finally fit this into our lives, as it just never seemed to be the right time or other such excuse until now.

It’s horrible that you’ve judged HSing families so harshly when you clearly haven’t don’t the research on the topic.

Tanya

Zach Wed, Sep 21, 4:16pm

Tanya,

I hear what you are saying, the system needs improvement, but abandoning the system will not improve it. That just leaves a bigger weight for the rest of us to carry. Instead of un-schooling your mindset, work to un-school the system. If you care so much for teachers, help us build a better learning ecosystem, don’t chuck us to the weeds.

p.s.
New Rule: never use the cliche “thinking outside the box” when you’re referring to fresh, authentic thought, unless you’re being ironic.

Virginia Wed, Sep 21, 3:37pm

Thanks for the heads up about homeschooling, except it is 15 years too late. Lets see where did I go wrong.., my oldest graduated from homeschool and graduated from a top liberal arts school, racked a 34 on her ACT for English and travels extensively. The next went to private school in 10th grade and as a sophomore scored a 72 on the PSAT which the school knew was from my homeschooling. Was one of their top scholar/athletes and received the most in scholarships his senior year.He is attending a top university, on student government and received an award for his college spirit and service. The next girl is a high school senior receiving letters from Yale, Hamliton etc rocked an impressive score on her ACT/SATS plus active in volunteer service. Other children attended private school from homeschool and are top of their class. They can’t wait for more of my kids.

I value teachers and education. I used material written by great educators. Don’t bash parents looking to provide a quality education and experience for their children. Sometimes for some children it takes a road away from brick n’ mortar for others it takes a road back to brick n’mortar. Thank God I had the opportunity for school choice for my kids.

Michelle Wed, Sep 21, 3:38pm

Here is a wonderful article (by a former teacher) about how much has changed since the days of George Washington about how we view education:
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/1s.htm

kck Wed, Sep 21, 3:43pm

Wow – that’s a wide brush you sweep. I would like to add a couple comments as the homeschooling parent of 2 kids. My oldest was a public school student for 2 years. He hit the ceiling of the gifted screener at his school. He spent 2 years being a behavioral problem and learning literally nothing. While teaching himself fractions and reading at a jr. high level as a K and 1st grade student. I don’t blame his teachers. Their hands were tied in a class of 25 to 30 kids in K and 1st grade. Anyway, I am grateful for the public school system but not everyone is pressed out of a cookie cutter. I am also grateful that parents have choices in our country. I will also say our inexperienced K teacher was 10X better and more flexible that our 1st grade teacher with 15+ years of experience.

So I consider myself more of a coordinator than a true educator. However, my husband and I both carry 2 degrees in technical areas. So no, while we’re not licensed. But we’ve found amazing resources available for home use and we also use our community. My kids have taken classes at our science museum, zoo, Children’s Theater, and other cultural centers. That one extra enrichment class a week a PS kid might take? My kids are able to do 5+ activities ongoing quite easily. When 3 pm rolls around they’re playing with kids that go to school.

In our state, kids are required to test annually. My kids track 3+ years ahead of grade level across the boards on open ended K-12 achievement testing. I’m not trying to brag. There are PS kids that could do this too. And if PS is working for those kids, more power to them. My oldest was miserable in that setting and sometimes parents make hard choices given their own particular children. Why judge a group of people you clearly don’t know. We aren’t religious and we live in an urban and diverse area.

I don’t stereotype teachers, and I have close friends who do teach. Please give homeschoolers the same courtesy. It’s obviously not a choice for everyone, but it has been a good fit for my 2 kids so far. We may re-enter the system at some point. Who knows.

Zach Wed, Sep 21, 5:05pm

The issue becomes EVERYTHING a homeschool parent/teacher can do with their child, they could do ANYWAYS, even if the child goes to public school. My child goes to public school AND he goes to the museums, the three aquariums around town, the zoo in Tampa, etc..

So, the question still remains why not do both? Why deprive a child of the public school experience?.

Virginia Wed, Sep 21, 6:26pm

Yes why do all the heads of state, majority of congressmen and women, presidents etc deprive their children of public education? I wondered this ,too when I worked in NYC with top financial leaders and bankers. Hmm they all deprived their children of public education.

Zach Wed, Sep 21, 6:48pm

Plenty of successful people who went to public school.

kck Wed, Sep 21, 7:01pm

Ummm … not sure you actually read my post. My child was deprived a meaningful education for him by attending public school. I am speaking of someone who has had it both ways.

Dawn Wed, Sep 21, 4:03pm

I’ve been homeschooling mine for 8 years and generally the most interested, enthusiastic and supportive friends I’ve had regarding our homeschooling have been the friends who were/are also teachers. It’s been a consistent truth as well that the new folks that I meet who are teachers still seem to be more interested and supportive then other parents (other parents generally don’t get my passion for grammar or algebra ). I’ve also found many longtime-homeschooling parents who’s respect and admiration for teachers has only increased in the years they’ve been homeschooling.

Wish you were close by so I could invite you over for cheesecake and tea (not in Nova Scotia by any chance?). I imagine we’d probably find we agree on lots of things regarding education, most especially the whole it-takes-a-village matter. At the very least I do make a mean cheesecake. Feel free to haunt my blog and bring up any concerns you might have about how we homeschool. I’m always open to free advice!

Tanya Wed, Sep 21, 4:27pm

No can do Zach. I will not leave my kids in a system that’s not working for us in hopes that it will get better. Funny, I know many educators, close friends with so many and they support our decision, believe we are doing an amazing thing for our children, understand that the system is flawed. Why would you want anyone to sit in a system that’s not working?

Zach Wed, Sep 21, 4:34pm

You’re not getting what I’m saying. You don’t “hope” the system will get better, you WORK to make it better. You teach your kids that they should WORK to make the world better, not to abandon the world (and yes I stretched the perspective out, because it IS a hidden curriuclum of homeschooling, we can’t be naive).

The sad part of this is that kids who have parents willing to homeschool them will, for the most part, do awesome in a school anyways AND they would be good influences on struggling students. And I see it happen everyday, the good students influencing those who struggle. The system works in that regard, but only if the “good” students are there and not at home. This is another issue of abandoning the Public.

Kira Wed, Sep 21, 8:57pm

Tanya,
I appreciate your passion on this matter, but I’m left with the same question time and again when I hear this argument. Why not show our kids how we can fix a broken system by making change and being a part of it? Why not take these co-ops and communities to become positive lobbyists for the change in the public school system and fight the legislature every time they cut the education budget (every year)? By running from this system a clear message is being sent that privatization is the answer. As a fellow liberal, I don’t think that’s the message you want to send. I was brought up to question the system and fight for what’s right and I can credit a lot of that to my public school education. I am concerned that the more the homeschool trend grows and the tea party gains strength we will be thrust back to a time when only those who can afford private school or have the luxury of not working full time can provide an education for their children.
I respect your view, but I think change can only come from fighting the system, not running from it. Consider it a challenge for parents like us to demand more from the politicians.

It’s late. I’m tired. I’m done.

dangermom Thu, Sep 22, 9:42am

The problem I’ve seen with doing all that great stuff about working to change the system and funneling all your energy and that is that you still wind up banging your head against a brick wall–and meanwhile there’s a time limit. I could dedicate 20 years to changing the system, but my kids will have grown up long before that. I have seen friends put everything they have into working within the school system to effect positive change for their kids, but when your child gets to second grade and it becomes obvious that–yet again–the class is not going to serve her needs and she isn’t going to learn to read this year either, you have to change strategy, because pretty soon it will be too late for that child. (My good friend never wanted to homeschool, but has been forced into it in this way–twice now, though hopefully temporarily.)

I haven’t had those experiences, because we have homeschooled from the start; not because I dislike the public school or think it’s terrible–our local school is pretty good–but because this is just what we want to do in our family and we enjoy it. So I have to comment from what I’ve seen of my friends’ experiences. But believe me, a homeschooling mom learns to deal with plenty of frustration too! I have really developed my patience muscles over the past few years.

Jessica Wed, Sep 21, 4:58pm

Zach,

At what point is it enough of a burden on the “good” student? I got tired of my daughter coming home in tears because of bullying going on in the classroom. I got tired of being the only parent who showed up to parties and field trips. They would lose recess and lunch time, she would come home without having had any exercise and not enough time to eat.

There comes a point when some students become a millstone around the other student’s necks.

My daughter is a good student and everyone loved her when she was in PS, but she wasn’t getting her needs met. She shouldn’t have to be held back by a system that is failing her.

It isn’t “abandonment” when someone leaves a job that isn’t fulfilling them. It isn’t “abandonment” when someone leaves a church that isn’t suiting their needs. Why is it “abandonment” when a child has different needs than what the school can offer? My child loves languages, music and science. Her school was barely touching these topics.

Zach Thu, Sep 22, 6:57am

Jessica,

The entire curriculum of my Eng II LA class is: Who are you beyond the influences that tell you who you are? Which then flows into a verticality with the 11th grade LA which their curriculum question is: How do you affect change on a systemic level?

As part of this, we deal with despair and we teach our students as they attempt to change the world for the better they will run into massive road blocks and we teach them not to funnel this into despair. Despair with the “system” seems to be an overriding theme with discussion about homeschooling.

Homeschooling is Safe, it’s a comfortable “Green Zone,” the opportunity at having to face and conquer despair (which WILL rear its head whenever one attempts to take on forces beyond the Personal) may be limited in the homeschool environment. And if one is going to affect change then they have to learn to funnel frustration into creativity and resolve, not despair, and you learn this by doing it. By standing up and taking a punch and then keep going.

The most conducive educational situation is public schooling by day homeschooling by night. The best (and Worst, which is just as important) of BOTH worlds.

Dawn Wed, Sep 21, 5:18pm

Just a thought on your idea Zach that homeschooling is abandoning the system…

On one level it certainly is. It’s not a question I haven’t wrestled with before but (and there’s always the but) I remember my mom struggling with schools, even running for the school board and never, in the school careers of her four kids, achieving a thing. When it’s a person up against a system, the odds are not good. I’ve met many teachers who understand that.

Another point though is that the aims of homeschoolers are sometimes just not a good match with the public system. The change I might want to re-enter the system would likely just not find any support or sympathy with most teachers and parents. Latin? Ditch whole language for phonics? Toss creative writing out the window for an imitation model? Is this woman crazy? And I’m a structured homeschooler. If the unschooler I used to be were to start advocating for the disposal of all text books and the freedom for kids to determine what they want to learn I’d be run out of town on a rail. Sometimes it’s good that we have the freedom to keep our kooky ideas confined to our own homes.

A last thought though is that although we’re keeping our kids out of school for the most part, that doesn’t equal abandoning the system. Sometimes rejecting the norm is the fastest and most effective means of changing it. I’ve seen a lot of articles and discussions on schools that have been started by those alarmed at how many parents are choosing to homeschool. Sometimes choosing not to participate creates much bigger waves then trying to change the system. Our actions might give those fighting inside the system more leverage and weight for their arguments at times.

Regardless, I’ve come to grips with the idea that frankly, my local schools aren’t all that bad. They’re pretty good in fact and the teachers are generally very committed folks. It just that my goals for how and what my kids should learn are a little different and rather then attempt to foist that onto the school or try to tack it on after school I’ll just handle it myself. I could never match the skills of a trained teacher in a classroom but at home I’m more of a mentor or tutor using specialized programs and it’s not beyond my skills as a parent.

Zach Wed, Sep 21, 5:42pm

Dawn,

I see how what you are advocating, “rejecting the norm” as changing the norm, may work in theory, however, what happens is that a lot homeschoolers merely run to a privatized-home-education-organization/materials, which is the idea that the Private will save the Public by dissociating with the Public. It reenforces this idea, it doesn’t change it.

Which, a distrust of Public in favor of Private solutions, was the desired outcome when for-profit entities set their eyes on Public Education two-decades ago.

A lot, though not all, of “home schooling” is merely Privatized Education. For-profit packages, dvd, cd, etc.

And again, there’s nothing that a homeschooling situation can do that a public educated student can’t do, in addition to having the chance to attend a public institution and participate in the WORK of action-democracy (action, because it’s “live” being lived).

Cheryl Wed, Sep 21, 5:48pm

We heavily researched the school districts in our area when we were buying houses. We had every intention of putting our son in the public school around the corner. Then things changed. My son started reading at 4. He has a late September birthday and there would be no exceptions. He would have been placed in preschool last year. They don’t skip boys. Girls, they will consider; boys, no. So we did not do preschool. Instead, we did Kindergarten at home.

Still considering PS for my son this year, I did standardized testing to show what he could do. He took the first grade test and scored at stanine 7-9 in all but one area, he scored stanine 5 (average for a first grader). This on a test 2 years ahead of where he would have been in PS. I did some placement tests at home for various curriculum. He placed into 3rd grade math. He was reading at a 2nd grade level, and he had mastered 1st grade grammar.

I talked to the school district about his placement in school. Again, no exceptions but “we would hope that the teacher could keep him busy with work at his level.” HOPE…that is not good enough for me. I want to know that my son is being challenged and learning new material. I know my son well enough to know that when he is bored, he looks for something else to do. He would be bored in a class where they are learning letters and letter sounds. He would likely start looking for new activities. I don’t want my son labeled as a problem child or ADD because he cannot sit and learn letters – he would rather be building with his Legos or doing challenging math problems, or reading his Bible.

I have a master’s degree, I have taught at the university level, I teach dance to all ages 2-adult. I know how to teach. I know how to research. At this point in his education the system cannot provide what he needs. I have plenty of respect for teachers, but the system is to big of a mess to fix. The best alternative I see are private schools (which I cannot afford at this time) or homeschooling (which my son loves).

And for the record, we don’t unschool. We follow the classical model with a little bit of Charlotte Mason’s methods thrown into the mix. We cover math, biology, Latin, history (heavy on memorization), and grammar. An education degree does not prepare a teacher to teach a subject (at least for elementary school). They learn teaching methods. How are they any more prepared to teach than I am? I had 12 years of teaching experience before I started homeschooling. I am confident in my abilities. If we choose to continue through high school, I will find other ways for my children to study subjects in which I am weak. But because we homeschool, my children will have more time to pursue their interests while receiving an excellent education.

Dawn Wed, Sep 21, 6:23pm

Good point, not sure I buy it completely and I suspect the truth lies somewhere between our two views of the harm/help homeschooling might offer. It doesn’t change the fact that for some parents, homeschooling is often a reaction to how powerless they feel in the public system. If rejecting public schooling doesn’t help, I’m not sure committing to it and becoming very engaged is an answer either.

Maybe the answer eludes me because these discussions so often center on simply rejecting the choice of others rather then doing the hard work of figuring out where our common ground is, what our needs are in terms of the public system and how we can work to get there. After all, you might maintain that homeschooling doesn’t help the system but the simple fact is that there was a pre-existing problem that led to many parents choosing to bring their kids home. Some might be willing to re-enter the system if they thought there was some way they could effect a solution but rather then discuss that solution we often get stuck pointing fingers – at homeschoolers, parents, teachers, bureaucrats, whatever. If we could drop the gloves and talk…Then there might be real progress.

I do take issue with your claim that, “there’s nothing that a homeschooling situation can do that a public educated student can’t do.” There is and vice versa. They’re two different options and both entail different benefits and drawbacks. It’s also something highly dependent on where you are as not all public school/homeschooling experiences can be equal.

I’m in a rural area for instance. Schools here have ethnically homogeneous populations and very limited course and extra-curricular activity selections. It’s not bad, it’s just what it is. By homeschooling I can free up some days to take the kids into town where we can meet people from a more diverse range of backgrounds and we can pick subjects (and commit reasonable amounts of time to those subjects) that our local school can’t offer. Not having the commitment of school also means we’re freed up for community service. It’s funny you mention the work of democracy because I’ve been considering taking my daughter down to our local MLA’s office (the equivelent to an area’s rep. in a state government?)) to meet him and see if there’s some way she can be involved. The experience and work of democracy isn’t limited to the schools.

But I did say vice-versa and after homeschooling for so long I’ve long since lost the arrogance and am very familiar with the downsides. As my daughter gets close to high school I’m becoming more aware that she’s missing out on the class discussion opportunities I had. I’d also love access to a high school science lab! We’ll see how that plays out. As I said before I really don’t think homeschooling is THE superior choice anymore. It’s just one of several and by making it you gain some benefits but also give up some others – like most choices in life.

Kira Thu, Sep 22, 11:37am

Dawn,

I was unable to reply to your recent post, so I chose this one. I want to thank you for your view point and the fact that you’ve been respectful and rational through out the discussion is only a testament to your character.

I can accept and as I’ve stated earlier, respect a parent’s choice to HS. I simply have concerns about those points I’ve already made. I am also aware that we’re all doing what we feel is best for our children. I have great hopes for my children and their generation and as a member of society I believe the education of all children is not just the concern of their parents, but all of us. As I stated earlier, I am certain there are parents doing a fantastic job with HS. Having said that, I would like an answer to my question about assessment. When my children take a test I am not there to assist or go over the answers prior to sending it in for grading. Is that the case with HS?

Dawn Thu, Sep 22, 4:37pm

Kira – I’m replying to myself because, like you, I’m finding the reply option wonky.

“When my children take a test I am not there to assist or go over the answers prior to sending it in for grading. Is that the case with HS?”

It depends on where you homeschool and what your style is. Some don’t test. They might not be required to or else it’s of limited use. I rarely test for instance. In my province I don’t have to unless they Dept. of Ed. decides to challenge my yearly report. I’m not sure how it works for the ones that are required or choose to test (I assume you mean state tests?). I do know most of the moms I know purposely would not go over them because they’re looking for a clear assessment so they can see what areas their child/children might be weak in so they can tailor their approach to deal with that. There might some others reading who could address that for you.

I personally don’t test for a couple of reasons. As I said, the province doesn’t require it unless they have reason to doubt my annual report. Also, working with my two day in and day out I have a good sense of how they’re progressing. This will likely change soon though. My daughter will be in Grade 9 next year so we’ll need records for transcripts and she’ll need more experience in some of the things that are normal in a classroom in case she decides to go to high school or for once she gets to university. She’s also starting to get into things that are challenging for me so I won’t be able to rely on myself as much to spot the holes (you don’t know what you don’t know, right?).

I have to completely contradict myself now though. In a looser sense of the word, my daughter has had a few tests. We were part of a study several years back when she was 8 that tested her. It turned out she was about a grade level behind her PS peers. I was a much more relaxed homeschooler then and we didn’t do formal work. I think we started formal work the following year and she caught up fairly quickly. She’s also been tested in music (she plays violin), both in theory and practical and done very well. I can’t even be in the room for those tests which has been a great experience for her.

The very odd time I have given her a test I have graded it and THEN gone over it with her so we could fix the mistakes. The grade itself never gets reported as I’m not using the tests for grading purposes but rather just to assess what she knows and how I need to address any shortcomings.

My son has never been tested. He has some CAPD issues we’re still getting sorted out so just finding what worked to get him reading has been a struggle (one we’ve won though! Whoo hoo!).

I don’t know if this helps. Feel free to ask me more questions or get me to elaborate more on this matter if I didn’t make sense.

dangermom Thu, Sep 22, 5:18pm

For another data point, meanwhile, we are required to do the same standardized test as publicly-schooled children, and I do not administer it myself. My kids think it’s a party day, since there are a bunch of their friends there, plus snacks. They have done very well on the tests.

Cathy Wed, Sep 21, 6:39pm

Zach – I am sure that you, like me, have learned (from experience and reading and others’ research findings) that kids learn best when they have plenty of free time, more time alone or with a caring adult than with peers, and more time in mixed-age groups than with same-age peers. They learn best when they have chosen their own tasks to do or topics to explore and when the reward for the activity is the activity itself. (Not grades, praise, gold stars, awards, etc.) Compulsion from outside the learner, passivity on the learner’s part, and outside evaluation (especially negative, but also positive) all tend to stunt or shut down learning.

I am sure you have seen the studies that show that teens do their best thinking in the afternoons and especially evening, and that they are best suited to schedules in which they can sleep late in the morning and avoid cognitive effort in the morning.

I’m sure you’ve noticed that schools seem to be especially created to be the worst possible learning environment. I’m sure that your inquisitive mind, like mine, asked why this should be so – and I’m sure that you have read that the school system was begun to meet some goals that are now outdated and that, in any case, never served the kids and their families as much as it did the powers-that-be. OF COURSE almost all teachers and administrators care about kids and want them to flourish – my husband and myself, and many of my friends, were or still are teachers – but the system is not at all optimal to help kids learn, and this explains why so many public school teachers homeschool their kids.

And I’m sure you’ve read about the many, many efforts to reform the system. When I was a mere middle-school kid and began reading John Holt’s book “How Children Fail,” I was excited about taking part in the reform of what I was experiencing as a rather boring series of classes in which almost everybody cheated as much as possible and learning was low on the list of most students’ values. Of course, as you know, from there the public school system has gone drastically downhill– despite the efforts by many, many educators to enact reform.

Homeschooling parents can relatively easily create interesting and varied environments – books and computers and art materials and some magnets and other science stuff to muck around with – and they can help their kids explore their own interests and find their passions and follow their dreams. I unschooled three daughters up to college age, and they are knowledgeable, skillful, creative, and very interesting and interested people. After years of exposure to magazines and computer games and field trips with out homeschool group and books and travel and millions of other activities and inputs, but absolutely no assignments or tests or grades, they all did great at university and “real life.”

I still work in my small way to reform the outdated and, fundamentally, ill-conceived public school system, and I still work to help kids stuck in the system (I tutor and teach in after-school programs) — but the system needs sweeping change, a paradigm shift of huge proportions.

Chrissy Wed, Sep 21, 6:59pm

Shockingly, I find that you are ill-educated on the topic. I suppose that parenting should be banned and a teacher should raise my children based upon your comments. In general, I find many illogical and unsubstantiated opinions. If you had backed your opinion with some type of experience or supportive research, I could respect it. As it stands, you are blathering pointlessly.

As for teachers, I do not find many that are qualified beyond academics to teach. I have experienced many good teachers, but the problem exists not at the level of a teacher. The problem is with the mainstreaming of education, unreasonbable reactions to behavior, extreme growth of the student population, etc – and that is only naming the major few.

More than anything, I do not think that housing 1000′s (yes, 1000′s) of students on a campus that more resembles a college or university an acceptable way to exert any type of control or to model any type of appropriate social behavior. The schools have grown entirely too large and leave the children ungoverned and much too much to themselves. You only need to visit Facebook or read the newspaper to find that this type of an institution isn’t working. The alternative is preferred for many parents: homeschooling.

With that said, any academic situation can fail. You need to step off of the soap box and discover reality. Nothing is perfect, but sometimes the alternative is just better.

And you wonder why teachers get such bad press lately? Evaluate your own egocentric stance on an academic structure that fails to teach math and reading. Consider that only marginly more than 60 percent of all high school students actually graduate. Isn’t that your fault? Consider how ill prepared college students are for class. Only 40 percent of college freshman continue on and graduate. Back up your hot air, and come find me later.

Zach Thu, Sep 22, 4:25pm

And what’s the solution you’re proposing, to walk away from the Public Sphere and abandon everyone else out there and focus on YOUR child. That’s the common refrain that runs through most of these posts: “my child,” “my child.” You talk about egocentric.

Okey Dokey Wed, Sep 21, 8:16pm

One of the more ignorant sows at welltrainedmind.com posted the following:

“Hmm. I guess the Girl Scouts leader, Judo Sensei, children’s librarian who runs the book club, guitar teacher, other Homeschool families, friends, relatives, neighbors, soccer coaches, swim instructors, art camp teachers, field trip and educational tour guides, employees of the various establishments we frequent, and so on and so forth aren’t part of “the village” in her little shoebox world. Such a shame I isolate my children from the 29 other kids their exact age and the few adults they might interact with on a daily basis in a public school classroom and expose them to the real world instead.

We all know it’s much better to spend 12 years preparing for the real world while shut away in one room than actually, you know, living it. And how some overworked and underpaid teacher has more of a vested interest in our children than we do.

And I’m sorry she is so lacking in confidence and perceived intelligence that she can’t even comprehend being able to teach a preschooler, for crying out loud (perhaps she has public school to thank for that)! But is she really unaware of the dismal failing states of our public schools, the graduates who can’t put together a coherent written sentence, the way even the best public school teachers are forced to forgo a well rounded education in order to teach to the test?

It’s ok. Kids like hers will work for kids like mine some day. She can put that arrogance in her pipe and smoke it! ”

—————

Sadly, that is the arrogant attitude that runs throughout the homeschooling community.

Kira Wed, Sep 21, 10:25pm

What a rediculous knee-jerk reaction. I think I’m impressed mostly with her middle school behavior of bringing Alexis’ children into it on a personal level. “My kids are better than yours. Neener neener ~ ”

I would love see her start a homeschool debate team.

Dawn Thu, Sep 22, 11:09am

Kira – A lot of the parents there are highly educated. Others, like me, made it through high school and that’s it. Quite a few were homeschooled. It’s a mixed bag.

I don’t think anyone would deny education in a formal environment can’t be excellent (in fact that board is predominantly FOR those of us who have very formal and structured homeschooling styles), but it’s often not our experience that what’s available in our local school is excellent or that the very good education a local school might offer is the style we want. My local schools are pretty good but they don’t offer things we want for our kids. No big deal. Most parents do want what those schools offer so I’m happy to step out of the system and school the kids at home.

Yes, my kids miss some things about school. You make one choice in life and it means you’ve turned down another choice with all the benefits it entails. There are drawbacks that I have to address but frankly, there are benefits to homeschooling that school kids “miss out” on as well. Heck, even public school parents often have to make those choices that end up in having their kids miss out on what they might otherwise consider key parts of schooling.

Some drawbacks of homeschooling though are greatly exaggerated or based more on an impression of homeschooling rather then the reality. While there may be some sheltered homeschooled kids that generally hasn’t been my experience. Generally the homeschooling parents I know are pretty average folk who have their kids enrolled in activities and happily face a hoard of neighbourhood friends at the door when school is over. I’m out in a very rural area and even I haven’t managed to avoid the annoying friends, the teen girl sleepovers or even that great indicator of socialization, lice. If only. The other point about diversity is a good one but where I am school is very ethnically and culturally homogeneous. My kids get a more diverse view by spending time out and about on outings and field trips or visits to homeschooling friends. A lot of these arguments against homeschooling seem to be very generally true but when you look at specific situations they very often break down.

The democracy reasoning is the toughest for me. I do get that and I do struggle with it at times but I do think stepping away from the system can be an effective protest and sometimes continual engagement can be a hamster wheel. Ultimately though, I suppose my choice to homeschool my kids doesn’t center on larger issues of democracy. Like most parents, it centers on our family and my kids and I think if I keep that in mind I’ll be turning out good thinking citizens.

Anyhow, I wish we didn’t draw these lines. I’m a mom. A very average mom. A friend and mom I’m closest to in parenting styles and who’s kids are most like mine sends and has always sent her kids to the local public school. Neither of us judge each other by the educational choices we’ve made and I think we both agree that the other has made the best choice for her family.

dangermom Thu, Sep 22, 12:10pm

Very nice, Dawn. I agree that there is no need to fight. We all try to do our best for our families, and that’s not always going to look the same.

Mary Ann Wed, Sep 21, 8:55pm

I stumbled upon this website by chance and have found the conversations quite interesting. I believe both sides of this debate have valid points. I have a Masters Degree in Education and am currently working on my PhD. I have spent an enormous amount of time researching home schooling versus traditional schooling options. In general I agree with the opinions Alexis stated. I believe the parents posting here are definitively dedicated parents who are in the top 10% of home schooling parents. Unfortunately, the dedication of the parents posting here are not the norm. Too often HS students do not receive a well-rounded education, they are not socially adjusted, and lag behind their counterparts in physical coordination. These HS parents do not seek out resources to improve their instruction.

I have instructed many HS who attend public high school classes for one or two classes a day. The students are appreciative of the opportunity to interact with peers. Several times these students have commented on how much they enjoy the ability to hear other student opinions and the opportunity to participate in classroom debates. Countless times the HS students have told me how much a particular teacher has opened their eyes to a different perspective they had never considered. Isn’t that what we all want?

Kira Wed, Sep 21, 10:59pm

Sing it sister. I agree whole heartedly.

It is my responsability to make sure my children receive not only a quality education, but that they are exposed to perspectives and views other than my own. This is how we become critical/free thinkers and find ourselves and beliefs.

Dawn Thu, Sep 22, 4:51pm

I don’t think any statistics we quote are very meaningful here. Most studies I’ve read would counter your view that most homeschooling students do not receive a well rounded education or are not well adjusted socially. But then those studies are often conducted by self-selecting groups that represent homeschoolers.

We can all talk about our experience then but that has it limits as well. To often people are in a position to notice only the worst of homeschooling like a teacher who has to deal with the homeschoolers for whom it hasn’t worked and so the parents send them back into the system. Or me who gets to pick the homeschoolers I hang around and so generally just sees the best. Or we see what we’re looking for so one might notice the fundamentalist family of homeschoolers in headscarves and skirts and never remember mine in our jeans and T-shirts and very normal kids.

Besides, once we’re talking experiences, we’re talking anecdotes and anecdotes are notoriously worthless beyond the very specific.

Now that I’ve said that I DO have a link to recommend. Milton Gaither (gaither.wordpress.com) is a professor and author who blogs about homeschooling research. He’s not a homeschooler and is very good at taking an objective, clear-headed look at the research he comes across.

s. jones Wed, Sep 21, 9:04pm

Well, let me just say that the number one most important component of a democracy is PUBLIC EDUCATION! To those who want to destroy, dismantle or otherwise disparage it, I say that you are certainly good tea partiers. In addition, I can’t think of anything more suffocating for a child than to be home schooled. All the field-trips, play dates or extracurricular activities in the world cannot make up for the real deficiency of the genuinely liberating experience of “going to school”. All the prattle and rationalizing of the home schoolers really comes down to their fears and control issues. But hey, good luck to you all. Oh ya, when you decide you’ve had it and send your kids to public school when they’re in middle or high school,don’t blame the schools for your insufficient ability. By the way, where DID you go to school? It must have been an amazing education.
Love,
a public school teacher, and proud of it!

Jess Wed, Sep 21, 9:30pm

I used to share your beliefs about homeschooling. Then my mother taught at a university for several years trying desperately to prepare future teachers. Her experiences were incredibly disheartening. Sure, some teachers are excellent and really are masters of their craft and we’d all be lucky if our children were placed with them yearly. But not all teachers are qualified to teach and are certainly not experts. My mother found that most of her students could not write well, could not spell and were lazy. Some were prone to cheating.

The decline of our public schools is directly related to the decline of standards at universities for those majoring in education. I can tell you many stories of people I know who began in engineering, dropped to business and then “found their calling” in education. Why? Because getting a degree in education is not all that challenging. For the most part the best and brightest are going into other fields. And who could blame them? Better salaries and job satisfaction can be found elsewhere.

I am homeschooling because I REJECT overcrowded classrooms, Terc Investigations math and other programs of that ilk, and “whole language” reading instruction. Yes, I can do a better job at home. Tutors, co-ops and community colleges are great resources for homeschooling parents to outsource instruction in areas that they do not feel competent teaching.

Also, not all homeschoolers “unschool”. The homeschooling world is vast and wide and full of interesting people making daring and bold choices for their children. Sometimes good parenting means rejecting “group think” and making choices that are genuinely in the best interest of the children in question and not just in the best interest of the parents. I heard multiple times this summer from parents who were heady at the thought of school beginning again so they could be rid of their children, “I just don’t know how you can stand to be with your kids day in and day out!”.

It’s true that not all homeschooling families are successful in their endeavor. But take a good, hard look at public schools and you’ll see that those institutions are not always beacons of successful learning either. Children can fail in homeschools, public schools and private schools. The variable are the adults who are involved.

Jess Wed, Sep 21, 9:37pm

P.S. – I just want to make it clear that I do not think that ALL teachers are unqualified. Of course there are amazing teachers who work tirelessly for their students and who excel at their job because they love educating children and have a gift for it. I applaud those self-sacrificing individuals. I remember fondly the few teachers I had in my own public schooling career who made a positive longterm impact on my life. There are many factors that contribute to our overall poorly performing public schools. Some of it has to do with poor parenting at home, some has to do with poorly prepared teachers and some of it has to do with the entire educational platform that our public education system is based on. A comment box on a blog post has serious limitations when trying to discuss such a huge topic!

Chris Wed, Sep 21, 10:18pm

I agree 100% and understand 1000% with what you said here…. four years ago. Four years ago, I had absolutely the same attitude as you about people who had the NERVE to think that they are qualified to give their own children a good education. Four years ago, if you had even said the words, “unschooling” I would have at least shrugged them off as typical granolas, and at worst gave them an earful about how crazies like them are creating a generation of serial killers.

That was four years ago before my son had a traumatic experience in 1st grade. We were told many things about our child. One teacher said, “Classrooms are just not an environment built with boys in mind. He’ll struggle all his life in here.” Another teacher told us, “You should try the full regimen of meds, and taper off just a couple of weeks before summer vacation. That way he can be his normal self for at least 2 months out of the year.”

I was told the best option was to seek an official diagnosis for some kind of learning disability and we could sail the goodship “Special Ed!” To my utter dismay and frustration, we could not get a diagnosis after seeing no less than 3 doctors. The bottom line, he didn’t have a learning disability. Conclusion: My kid was just not built for schooling.

It was only out of heartbreak and desperation that I explored the world of home education and unschooling. Let me tell you, if I had landed on another planet, I would not have been more thrown into a loop. Unschoolers had such crazy ideas that I had never heard of before, like: “Learning is innate, natural and life long.” “Children can learn if their natural innate learning instinct is encouraged beyond infancy and into the “school age” years.” And the craziest idea of all: “Learning comes from the learner. No teacher is needed.”

Totally nuts? Absolutely. Incredulous? You better believe I was. With much gnashing of teeth, I embarked on home education. Within the first 8 months, we discovered the principles of unschooling to be the best fit for my son. I know what you are talking about, because I was right there! And despite the critical tone, I think you are asking the right questions. I only hope that you continue your investigation of this fascinating “paradigm.” It is really so radically different a perspective on education and children that it bears more reflection. Home education is already 10% of all school age children in the U.S. and gaining 15% of the school’s population each year. Really, what are these people thinking?!?!?

I am glad your child is thriving in public school. That is really the main concern. A child should not just survive their education, they should THRIVE. Hopefully your child will never have the difficulties other children have gone through to have to choose home education. And hopefully your public school is a good one that doesn’t pull crappy stunts like expelling kids for pointing their gun-shaped chicken nugget at another kid (true story). If you ever feel that public school is somehow short-changing your children, at least this country still lets you exercise the right to educated them yourself. You’ve started asking all the right questions. If you continue your exploration, you might be pleasantly surprised… and even educated.

Peace.

Tanya Thu, Sep 22, 6:36am

I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed reading your comment.

Brandon Wed, Sep 21, 10:25pm

My experience coaching HS kids has been that most of them are “soft” and overly indulged. I often wonder if a HS kid has ever failed a course? Just curious…

Cheryl Thu, Sep 22, 11:55pm

My son is 6, I don’t have a lot of experience; but no, he has not failed a course. If he does not understand a concept we keep at it until he masters it. We teach to mastery, I do not homeschool so my kids can fail. That is one of the greatest benefits of homeschooling; we can cater the education to our child. My child will not be “left behind” when he does not understand a concept, but the class must move forward.

Will I let my child fail? YES! Just not in academics in elementary school. As he gets older and has assignments to complete by deadlines, if he does not do them, he will fail.

He participates in competitions for dance, auditions for theatre, and sports; he does not always win. He is allowed to fail for the purpose of building and developing character, but not when it comes to his academics.

HomeSchooling Works Wed, Sep 21, 11:56pm

Homeschooling is the best for my children and many others, I cringe at the thought of sending my kids to school, thankfully I have not! School cannot and will not teach my children what I feel they need to know in this world. I am very smart and more than capable of leading my children to a successful education. It is not important that my children learn what the government or a teacher thinks they should and at a time that they want them to. My children learn what they love when they need to learn it, along with the important basics, reading writing, English and math.

They are also taught about Entrepreneurialism, making money without a job (which is a 4 letter word in our house) and so much more that most schools will never teach or understand! I do not and will not send my kids to school because they are my kids and didn’t have them so that I can miss out on their life while they learn stuff that I could teach them at home anyway! School to me is very unnatural and the way I see it, anti family for the most part! I mean the schools as a whole not individual teachers. No school will ever give my kids what I can and what they need in my opinion!

Like I said before if I don’t know something, I will learn it! If I don’t feel it is important or relevant to our lives than I won’t waste my time with it! I was private schooled, public schooled and finally self schooled at home as a teen. My education really started when I was in control of it and it was the best thing I ever did!

I think it is wrong for you to judge something so harshly that you have little understanding about. There is more than one way to educational success and it is the way that best suits the individual child, you have to agree with that. I am thankful that there are public schools to teach the children who are not fortunate enough to have a parents that are so involved with their Children’s lives as home educators are.

Thankfully we do have a choice because for us homeschooling/unschooling is the best way that we can ensure a quality education designed by the ones who love my children the most!

Life is just to short to spend it going to school!

Christine Thu, Sep 22, 4:35am

Honey, I actually am that awesome. Jealous? Just replying in kind, since I no longer feel it’s necessary to defend my family’s decision to homeschool.

Kira Thu, Sep 22, 10:57am

Christine,

If you no longer feel it necessary to defend your decision to HS, why are you still writing? In fact, shouldn’t school be in session right now? I see that you’re still posting at 10:37. My student is currently learning in an A rated, title I school with peers from all walks of life. Where is your student while you’re typing this to me? Recess?

By the way, I was a teacher prior to having a special needs child. A special needs child that receives the benefits of a public education. The public education you state is a fad. I also come from a long line of educators and I respectfully disagree. Good luck in your endeavors.

TK Thu, Sep 22, 7:36am

Home schooling is an endeavour best suited for the egotistical, the hopelessly elitist, and the paranoid.

As a public school teacher- some of the best kids i have come across have been homeschooled- so have some of the most anxious, neurotic and and terrified- it really depends on the kid what is best for them- i honestly don’t think that the writer of this article was intentionally trying to bash homeschoolers, but state her highly educated opinion on the matter. Truth is- she is a teacher-a teacher with a masters degree- and has seen it all- just like me. She is a stakeholder and therefore has a right to voice her thoughts on the matter without her and her children being personally attacked.

Parents have a responsibility to educate their children, but they also have an obligation to create good citizens. Whether they are socially adjusted or some sort of flash-card spelling-bee freak the nations needs to be assured that these home schooled students are invested members of our society not elitist, arrogant, paranoid cyber-closeted racists.

After discussing this article with some of my students……I heard from Carlos that “homeschool sucks’ because your parents are away- making you do the work- you stay inside- and I felt like it could lead to mental illness for me”…..and Anthony’s comment ‘your hot and healthy mom was home schooled’…..had me cracking up. In all seriousness- my products of public school are sharp- go to harvard- start fortune 500 companies and are just as successful as the next kid- if they want to be.

Their humor and sarcasm makes me smile- and reminds me why I am here- and why I became a teacher in the first place.

Zach Thu, Sep 22, 8:01am

1. If everyone retreats from the Public sphere, then no one has a vested interest in the Public Sphere. Changes from the outside of a “system” (though to identify it as a “system” gives it too much power) are as important as changes from within, but that is rarely done in a homeschooling situation. Par for the course is that parents dissociate from the Public School and essentially stop working to improve it. HS parents may begin to despair about the “system”, and one cannot despair and improve at the same time.

To hope that somehow your choice to homeschool will be seen as a political choice (and thus will change the “system”) when you are not being ACTIVELY political is naive.

2. An individual is not set in stone, people adapt, grow, evolve, t suggest that a student is static and cannot adapt to PS, may be short-sighted. HOWEVER, Homeschooling is certainly right for some students, but this is a small percentage of students, too small a number for the numbers of homeschoolers we see today, which is to suggest that homeschooling is becoming an Educational Fad, which is as dangerous as any other Educational Fad. It sounds like most of the respondents to this article are NOT the parents this article is speaking to. The Kool-Aid being sipped is the FAD element of homeschooling and those parents who are caught up in the FAD elements of HS, if you are not participating in the FAD aspects of HS, great.

3. Public school by day, Homeschooling by night. If a student is frustrated with the public school USE that as a teachable moment, analyze the mechanism of the system, read “Pedagogy of the Oppressed,” develop a praxis to affect the “system” at fundamental levels.

4. Most homeschool materials/curricula that can be purchased are standards-based and skills-based. They are produced by private for-profit organizations. A purely standards/skills based approach to education is a serious concern. Which, it’s ironic, because one of the primary reasons that HS parents homeschool is the complaint that schools are becoming obsessed with standards and skills rather than real, authentic learning.

Dawn Thu, Sep 22, 10:25am

We’re a loooong way from everyone. Frankly, homeschooling is one of those self-limiting thing. The demands it makes on a family are going to ensure most parents don’t choose it. The whole slippery-slope argument is a tired fallacy.

2. The problem is that the article was very general. It wasn’t specific and came across as a very general and rather vague rant.

3. You’re talking about after-schoolers. While some parents choose to do that and I support that choice I’m not going to do that to my family. We need some downtime, thank you very much.

4. Most public school materials are produced by private for-profit organizations. The state does not own the textbook suppliers, computer manufacturers or the producers of most of the materials you find in a classroom. That’s a neither-here-nor-there argument. As for standards and skills, there’s the problem of talking about homeschoolers as if they’re some sort of uniform group again. trying to lump us together is something like trying to herd cats. One group will be the no-texts unschoolers and another will be the structured Classical homeschoolers.

Zach Thu, Sep 22, 4:45pm

Dawn:

It’s not a fallacy, it’s a Categorical Imperative.

We don’t use one single state provided material in my classroom, and when my Admin started to make a stink about it, I sent my students to go do some research, and they combed through educational legislation and found out some pretty interesting things with regard to what a curriuclum in a classroom is allowed to look like. Long story short: I don’t use one single state provided material in my room.

My kids learn the LA skills, they learn the LA content, and they learn “system.” I use the “system” as both an object of study and tool of study.

So all the so called “limitations” of the system that HS lament are not in fact limitations. They are objects of contemplation; they are tools of study.

“Limitations” are welcoming gates of possibility, because when my students find out that “limitations” are anything but, they are liberated because they disappear.

Chris Thu, Sep 22, 6:06pm

Zach, I hear your point about changing the system from without or within. I have to admit that although I believe in public education reform, I was not personally willing to keep my own child in it while I fought for reform. I admit it was an extraordinarily selfish choice, but school reform is my fight, not my son’s. We spent nearly a year trying to work within the system, but in the end the system failed us as a public schooling family. Though I don’t blame the teachers (many of whom really tried to help), there were useless in the effort to provide my son with an adequate learning environment simply because accommodating us would have got them fired.

Ever since our personal situation opened my mind to alternative education possibilities, I have come to realize that ‘public school as essential to a child’s education’ should NOT be viewed as an axiom. Afterall, it’s the law of nature that it only takes one exception to disprove the axiom. And I don’t need to make a list here of how many exceptions to the rule there have been since compulsory schooling became law 150 years ago.

Though you may view the 900-fold increase in homeschooling as a “fad,” it continues to claim attrition from public education by an additional 4% year over year (in some states as high as 15%). There may be more people like me – supportive of school reform for the preservation of a free, public education for U.S. citizens – yet unwilling to put my own child in the system for the time-being. I am willing to use any difficult situation as a “teaching moment” for my child, but have to draw the line when keeping him in a classroom could cause him mental and emotional injury. I admit it’s not a tidy balance, since I will err on the side of protecting my child more often than not.

Also, fyi – most home schoolers and especially unschoolers routinely opt out of standardized testing. Those who do participate do so mostly just before enrolling in college or trade school. And to be totally honest, I never even gave a thought to whether or not pulling my kids out of public school would be seen as a political statement either way. It was the farthest thing from our minds at the time. Just suggesting you explore the possibility that the decision to homeschool is a far more PERSONAL than political action for families.

Dawn Fri, Sep 23, 11:01am

Zach,

Your argument seems to be boiling down to, “School is good, except when it’s bad and then that’s good too.”

I’m trying hard to understand your POV though. A complaint of homeschoolers was that we often use material from private-for-profit organizations. I pointed out that most schools use resources from private-for-profit organizations. You shared an anecdote relating that you don’t use those materials in you classroom. Okay, but that’s anecdotal of course and not indicative of what’s going on in most classrooms and I can easily point to examples within the homeschooling community where parents take a similar approach. And in the end the argument has gone nowhere.

If the general point you want to make is that homeschoolers generally use materials that, “are produced by private for-profit organizations” and that it’s a bad thing then it’s easily countered by pointing out schools do much the same. So either that particular evil is shared or it’s really not that evil in the first place. Either way it truly IS in the neither-here-nor-there category.

As for limitations, again, you’ve made a point similar to one I’ve made for homeschooling. Sure you can address the limitations of the system as a talented teacher but of course, the limitations of homeschooling can be addressed by an engaged parent. I think this argument is actually less about pointing out the differences between homeschooling and public schooling but rather the *similarities*.
It’s simply that we have a hard time understanding that someone in a different situation can deal with those similar challenges because we’re so familiar with thinking inside that particular box we’re living in. I’m intimately familiar with meeting the particular limitations and challenges of homeschooling and have no experience with schools. I can see how they’re able to be dealt with and that most concerns here are aren’t true obstacles to a committed parent. You are familiar with the challenges and limitations of school and can see how those are dealt with. We look at each other’s situations and shake our heads because we can’t just can’t imagine – all the while we’re actually barking up the same tree.

I get some flack from other parents about homeschooling but it’s been a constant that the most interested and supportive people I know are or were public school teachers. Why? Because we understand each other’s excitement over gerunds or The Illiad. Because we share the same bafflement over many parents’ hands-off approach to academics and intellectual development in their kids. Because we understand just how frustrating children can be when we really challenge them rather then send them off to the TV. Because see just how much we have in common and it’s generally much more then we have in common with other parents.

The cheesecake invitation still stands for any teacher here. I’m not paying for the airfare to get here but if anyone makes their way to Nova Scotia feel free to drop me a line. With how passionate most here are I can’t imagine us not having a good time.

If it’s allowed I’ll post a link to my blog so anyone here can get a feel for what we do (when I’m not posting about our chickens!). It’s daybydayhsing.blogspot.com and if anyone has further questions or concerns about how we homeschool they can feel free to ask me there as well.

Zach Sun, Sep 25, 9:01am

Dawn,

Of course it’s anecdotal, so is every story in this forum. Yeah, I’m talking about me just as you are talking about you.

The “for-profit materials” discussion is not a “neither here-nor-there.” It’s one of the vital points of difference. Your child can simply switch to another book. My students have to WORK to change the system so they can switch to another book.

So, we’re not “barking up the same tree.”

Yes, there are similarities, but the are also important difference, for instance, the limits of homeschooling are not…”systemic.” My students have to learn how to deal and change the hierarchy all the way up to the State and Federal level. They HAVE to, the MUST learn that despair is not an option. Some parent they said they got tired of banging their head against the wall, which only says they turned to despair, which is NOT an option. And the only way to learn that is to “hit the wall” and work to funnel that “limitation” into an “liberation.” I teach my students, every wall is just a wall, there’s a way around it. One must ACTUALLY TAKE PART in the lesson, to learn the lesson. And when my 120 students leave my class at the end of the year, they have seen how to claim power in a world that is interconnected and systematized, and I know that when they get to 11th, their LA teacher will further strengthen their voice and power, and the same when they hit 12th grade, because I work with those teachers, we’ve crafted a verticality that drives this lesson home via literature and literature studies.

The “system” of homeschooling is….YOU and your child, you are the “system,” you can voluntarily stop using a certain approach or start a new one AT YOUR WHIM. My students don’t have that option. To assert choice into the arena they have to learn the nuances of a systemic operation from the inside, and learn how to manipulate the cogs, and this is a VITAL lesson when attempting to change anything beyond the Personal.

And while, sure, your student can write letters to the school board, to the DOE, protest at school board meeting, etc, but your student is not on the inside, there is not a…”vitalness” to it. When my students write a letter to Att.General Pam Bondi demonstrating how standardized tests and text-books from private companies are unconstitutional they have a highly vested interest. You student can simply pick another book. My have to, no, they GET TO, learn how to change a system they are involved with.

These are two HUGE differences between PS students and HS students, at least the thousands that attend my classes and the classes of the teachers I work with.

And AGAIN, what’s great is that my own flesh-n-blood child gets BOTH; by day he is in school, in the “system” learning its nuances, and by night he gets all the benefits that your homeschooled child gets.

Kira Thu, Sep 22, 10:18am

I’m just wondering how many of the HS parents were educated in a formal or public school environment. From the posts here it appears they are highly educated and well spoken. I doubt they were all home schooled themselves. In fact, many of them make a point of telling us how smart they are. Doesn’t this show that a quality education can be received in a formal setting as long as the support is present at home?

No matter how many resources are used, the children in a HS environment are missing the class discussion, as well as, the opportunity to interact with peers from demographics other than their own. Isn’t the real life experience to be away from the shelter of home while learning in a diverse environment? Of course there are success stories and parents that are capable of doing a good job, however, I worry about the assessment standards used for HS. A good point was made earlier; does anyone in HS ever fail? I admit my lack of knowledge in this arena, but I wonder if the assessments used are completed in a setting where the parent is not available to assist the child so that it’s a true result.

More than anything the point for me is political and has ramifications. This is about Democracy and what the loss of public education will mean for our country. Like it or not, this is the way we’re heading if we don’t unite and fight for improvements to the system.

Every parent has the freedom to make this choice and I respect that. I just hope that this isn’t a fad that will eventually fade and cause bigger problems when ill prepared students enter the public arena. I am aware this last statement is a generality (most opinions blogs are), but I’m sure it doesn’t apply to your child.

Christine Thu, Sep 22, 10:37am

Kira:
Public school is the fad. Do your research. Compulsory public education is around 150 years old. Home education is much older, and produced graduates such as Archimedes, St. Paul, Dante, Leonardo da Vinci, Sir Isaac Newton, Thomas Jefferson, and John Adams. I have heard every excuse in the book why homeschooling doesn’t work, when the research clearly shows it does work on an academic and social basis. You worry about your students and I’ll worry about mine.

Zach Thu, Sep 22, 4:56pm

Uh, Christine,

Ancient Greece had public schools so Archimedes would probably have attended, though not much is known of his early life. Dante was educated in a classroom setting as well, granted through the church. Both Thomas Jefferson and John Adams were taught in schools open to citizens of the public: Jefferson a Presb. school, Adams a “Latin” school. Newton was also educated by a government educational institution ….so….uh…..

Cheryl Thu, Sep 22, 11:40pm

I attended public school through 4th grade. It was a very good school and I had wonderful teachers. I loved worksheets, I thrived on desk learning. My parents moved me too a small private school in 5th grade. This was 20+ years ago; the middle school I would have attended in the public system was horrible. It was a scary place, I know because I attended the weekly gifted and talented program at that school. My husband was homeschooled. We both attended college and did very well. I went on to complete my master’s degree.

My son does not do well sitting in a desk, he is years ahead of where he would be in public school. He does not have ADD or ADHD, he just learns like a boy. He can concentrate for long periods of time if he is interested, challenged, and not forced to sit in a desk to learn. Public school was not a good fit for him. We sit on the floor and study maps of the ancient world as we read about ancient Egypt. He dances around as he recites his history time line. We discuss mathematical concepts on the floor as we write on the white board. He studies science with his dad as they work on the garden. He is learning in a way that best fits him. As he matures, he will learn to sit in a chair at a desk for longer periods of time; but for now, ensuring that he is learning and retaining information is more important than sitting in a desk. He is six.

Jessica Thu, Sep 22, 12:55pm

Zach,

I don’t think it is a good use of our time for my daughter to attend public school AND then homeschool at night. So she would get home at 4, she would have to do homework, eat dinner, she needs to do her chores, she needs some reading time everyday and then what is left? She wouldn’t have TIME to do both. There is only so much time in the day.

All of this is about my kid making concessions again and again meanwhile the schools are cutting more and more programs that she would benefit from. They are allowing us to fall behind on math and science while they are mired in political battles over curriculum, what is or is not science and ridiculous people on school boards who are dragging the whole school system into the loss of accreditation.

I might be willing to fight certain battles, but you are not aware of the very dire situation in my area and what that looks like to a parent. I might be willing to go to meetings, and try and effect change but I am not willing to gamble my child’s future on a corrupt system (specific to my area) that is failing again and again.

The school districts in this metro area have been in the national news for these issues.

The children still need to learn while the adults are misbehaving. We can never get this time back. How many kids have to suffer through mediocrity while the adults play games with their future?

I am moving away, whether or not we continue to homeschool depends on them.

Nellie Thu, Sep 22, 1:05pm

Geez this was quite a debate! What works for one may or may not work for another. Gotta do what works best for you and your little peeps – no two are like, that’s how God made us! Love the Freedom of Choice!

Dawn Thu, Sep 22, 4:09pm

That was the most sensible comment in this whole discussion!

cavan Thu, Sep 22, 2:08pm

Wow, hit a nerve here did we? Interesting reading all the posts. This seems like most choices in life, based on personal experiences and perspective. But thankfully we live in America so I applaud Alexis for using her freedom of speech based on her teaching and motherhood experiences.
As a former middle school teacher (I only left to have my babies), my biggest concern is that if you make the choice to homeschool that you see it through to the end…please!! It was my experience that once these kids reached their lovely teenage years of middle school, that the parents would give up and come in and drop their socially awkward child off for us to “fix”. And it was so hard to see these kids struggle both academically and socially, these kids suffered.
I am sure it works for those parents whom are 100 o/o dedicated or if their child needs special attention and care. But for the average, mainstream child, my biggest concern is their emotional well being because it is a tough world out there and noone holds your hand once you enter it.

Dawn Thu, Sep 22, 4:07pm

I’ve heard this before from some teachers. I’m thinking the students you get back in school might often be the ones for whom homeschooling wasn’t a great fit. There’s a certain selection bias happening – You just don’t deal with the kids who are doing well in homeschooling because they generally don’t go back into the system.

“because it is a tough world out there and noone holds your hand once you enter it.”

I agree. I remember working my first job out of high school and having a tough time adjusting because my instinct was to treat my boss like my teacher. Not a good thing. I remember several years on when I was higher up the ladder and we’d hire the high school grads and shucks, they were frustrating. Getting them to show initiative and pick jobs to do without being assigned was like pulling teeth. I don’t mean to say my homeschoolers will be less frustrating in their own ways when they get their first jobs but rather that each choice can saddle kids with it’s own special drawbacks. The key isn’t to throw our hands up and condemn the other because we’ve witnessed possible outcomes of one choice or another but rather to be aware of the pitfalls and guard against them.

Quincey Wed, Sep 28, 3:28pm

I’m a public high school teacher, and I have to say in my experience Alexis is 100% spot-on. I have taught several students who transitioned from homeschooling to public school and every one has been, in one way or another, a big ol’ mess. Of course, as a public school teacher I am supposed to fix everything from their character to hygiene to the reading skills they were supposed to learn in 3rd grade, but that’s another topic.

Parents are not qualified to teach their kids everything. If you are an expert in something, great! I really hope you teach your kids that. (My dad has an MA in Literature, so guess what? We read and discussed books! Thanks, Dad!)But please don’t assume that you are 100% caught up on everything your kids need to know. You aren’t, and that is ok. That is why we pay taxes and hire professionals.

The other aspect of this is the social integration. I’m sorry, but I’m going to go out there and say it: I’ve yet to meet a homeschooled kid who is not socially awkward. Social skills are critical for success in life, and if the people who a kid hangs out with are essentially hand-picked by the parents kids lose out on learning about diverse populations, points of view and ways of dealing with the world. Schools mix ‘em up, shake and stir and then all the kids have to learn to deal with each other. Even Alexis’s excellent example of a horrible teacher is apt: kids have to learn how to deal with a**holes too, and they won’t if they aren’t allowed to do so.

You rock on, Alexis. We’ve been in trenches and seen it from the ground (to abuse 2 cliches) and can speak from a place of experience.

Scott Thu, Sep 29, 11:43am

Alexis, I think you hit a home run.

Zach,
I agree, the best education is Public School by day, and good parenting by night. There is no such thing as drop the kids off at school and your job is done.

Quincey,
Yep, I’ve never met a well adjusted HS kid either. They’ve always been sheltered and coddled despite their parents best efforts not to do so. The best education is letting your child experience the world around them on their own despite how scary and dangerous that my be. I think the best part about PS school for me was finding out that my parents were super ignorant and had antiquated world views. If I had been home schooled I’m sure I would have adopted more of those ridiculous mindsets.

On another note, there’s a bigger issue here than just HS vs PS. It’s what the hell are we teaching our kids? We live in a different world than when the public school system was created. We need an update to survive in this new world. Here’s an excerpt from one of my favorite authors Seth Godin….it should be an eye opener for everyone.

“A hundred and fifty years ago, adults were incensed about child labor. Low-wage kids were taking jobs away from hard-working adults.

Sure, there was some moral outrage at seven-year olds losing fingers and being abused at work, but the economic rationale was paramount. Factory owners insisted that losing child workers would be catastrophic to their industries and fought hard to keep the kids at work–they said they couldn’t afford to hire adults. It wasn’t until 1918 that nationwide compulsory education was in place.

Part of the rationale to sell this major transformation to industrialists was that educated kids would actually become more compliant and productive workers. Our current system of teaching kids to sit in straight rows and obey instructions isn’t a coincidence–it was an investment in our economic future. The plan: trade short-term child labor wages for longer-term productivity by giving kids a head start in doing what they’re told.

Large-scale education was never about teaching kids or creating scholars. It was invented to churn out adults who worked well within the system.

Of course, it worked. Several generations of productive, fully employed workers followed. But now?

Nobel-prize winning economist Michael Spence makes this really clear: there are tradable jobs (making things that could be made somewhere else, like building cars, designing chairs and answering the phone) and non-tradable jobs (like mowing the lawn or cooking burgers). Is there any question that the first kind of job is worth keeping in our economy?

Alas, Spence reports that from 1990 to 2008, the US economy added only 600,000 tradable jobs.

If you do a job where someone tells you exactly what to do, they will find someone cheaper than you to do it. And yet our schools are churning out kids who are stuck looking for jobs where the boss tells them exactly what to do.

Do you see the disconnect here? Every year, we churn out millions of of workers who are trained to do 1925 labor.

The bargain (take kids out of work so we can teach them to become better factory workers) has set us on a race to the bottom. Some argue we ought to become the cheaper, easier country for sourcing cheap, compliant workers who do what they’re told. We will lose that race whether we win it or not. The bottom is not a good place to be, even if you’re capable of getting there.

As we get ready for the 93rd year of universal public education, here’s the question every parent and taxpayer needs to wrestle with: Are we going to applaud, push or even permit our schools (including most of the private ones) to continue the safe but ultimately doomed strategy of churning out predictable, testable and mediocre factory-workers?

As long as we embrace (or even accept) standardized testing, fear of science, little attempt at teaching leadership and most of all, the bureaucratic imperative to turn education into a factory itself, we’re in big trouble.

The post-industrial revolution is here. Do you care enough to teach your kids to take advantage of it?”

So, arguing over HS vs PS is a worthy endeavor, but let’s not loose site of the forest for all the trees.

If you liked Seth you can read more here:

Scott Thu, Sep 29, 11:44am

Sorry, link didn’t work: http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/

Homeschooling Mommies?!?

Sep 21st, 2011

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